Comments on: Don’t blame the kids http://blog.genyes.org/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=dont-blame-the-kids Thoughts About Empowering Students with Technology Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:39:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Wesley Fryer http://blog.genyes.org/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-12015 Wesley Fryer Fri, 14 Dec 2007 19:18:15 +0000 http://blog.genyes.com/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/#comment-12015 I appreciate both this post and your link to the 12 page PDF file on students at conferences. I am going to look at that carefully as we consider adding a student strand for K12Online next year. I wonder if situations like this call for a blend of asynchronous videos with interviews and documentaries about and by students, and then some interactive Q&A. If there are specific questions and "answers" conference conveners are looking for, then certainly those can be "controlled" more with pre-recorded video. Live student presentations ARE much messier and difficult to predict compared to pre-recorded video. I think your point about inviting student voices to a conference should be much more than just wanting to hear kids read a script, act the part of a parrot, etc. is well made. And, it is great that David is hearing you and responding. I appreciate both this post and your link to the 12 page PDF file on students at conferences. I am going to look at that carefully as we consider adding a student strand for K12Online next year. I wonder if situations like this call for a blend of asynchronous videos with interviews and documentaries about and by students, and then some interactive Q&A. If there are specific questions and “answers” conference conveners are looking for, then certainly those can be “controlled” more with pre-recorded video. Live student presentations ARE much messier and difficult to predict compared to pre-recorded video. I think your point about inviting student voices to a conference should be much more than just wanting to hear kids read a script, act the part of a parrot, etc. is well made. And, it is great that David is hearing you and responding.

]]> By: Clay Burell http://blog.genyes.org/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-11947 Clay Burell Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:45:03 +0000 http://blog.genyes.com/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/#comment-11947 My problem with so many adult educators who have left the classroom is that they don't seem to any longer have any connection with any young people beyond their living room. It doesn't have to be that way. But I blog about that all the time and get a stony silence, for the most part. ;) Here's to gadflies, Sylvia. Please continue being mine, too. My problem with so many adult educators who have left the classroom is that they don’t seem to any longer have any connection with any young people beyond their living room.

It doesn’t have to be that way.

But I blog about that all the time and get a stony silence, for the most part. ;)

Here’s to gadflies, Sylvia. Please continue being mine, too.

]]> By: GingerTPLC http://blog.genyes.org/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-11789 GingerTPLC Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:33:52 +0000 http://blog.genyes.com/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/#comment-11789 I think that if we're talking about how school could be different, sometimes we don't want to talk with students who have been able to buy in to how the game is to be played, regardless if they like it or not. Likewise, finding a group of students who've not been able to buy in (especially at the HS level) would be easy, but perhaps not the group of kids who would be "eloquent" in the eyes of the audience. I agree that it's challenging, but the piece we need to consider the most is that it's often difficult to imagine what education could be like if you've never experienced anything different than status quo. While David's blog has some merit, Sylvia, I agree that some who aren't risk-takers will shy away from listening to students. I've taken students to present at educator-focused workshops and conferences and am stymied as to why we'd ever want to talk about school improvement (of all varieties) in their absence. I hold the map and compass to where I want the students to go, but dang it, it's also my job to teach them how to use that equipment and also to stand back to watch them learn by experience too! (wanted to post this morning when you tweeted, but was too focused on NOT teaching kids!) I think that if we’re talking about how school could be different, sometimes we don’t want to talk with students who have been able to buy in to how the game is to be played, regardless if they like it or not.

Likewise, finding a group of students who’ve not been able to buy in (especially at the HS level) would be easy, but perhaps not the group of kids who would be “eloquent” in the eyes of the audience.

I agree that it’s challenging, but the piece we need to consider the most is that it’s often difficult to imagine what education could be like if you’ve never experienced anything different than status quo.

While David’s blog has some merit, Sylvia, I agree that some who aren’t risk-takers will shy away from listening to students. I’ve taken students to present at educator-focused workshops and conferences and am stymied as to why we’d ever want to talk about school improvement (of all varieties) in their absence. I hold the map and compass to where I want the students to go, but dang it, it’s also my job to teach them how to use that equipment and also to stand back to watch them learn by experience too!

(wanted to post this morning when you tweeted, but was too focused on NOT teaching kids!)

]]> By: Carolyn Foote http://blog.genyes.org/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-11773 Carolyn Foote Wed, 12 Dec 2007 23:31:14 +0000 http://blog.genyes.com/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/#comment-11773 Sylvia, I agree with you about the power of student voices. We held student panels for our teachers over two days, in panels of four, and had excellent results and conversation, that was always different. We realized we needed more diversity gradewise, but by having students of many different grade levels and interests, we learned a great deal. Students have so much to tell us. I haven't had a chance yet to read David's post, which I will do--picked up yours from Twitter. Sylvia,

I agree with you about the power of student voices.

We held student panels for our teachers over two days, in panels of four, and had excellent results and conversation, that was always different.

We realized we needed more diversity gradewise, but by having students of many different grade levels and interests, we learned a great deal. Students have so much to tell us.

I haven’t had a chance yet to read David’s post, which I will do–picked up yours from Twitter.

]]> By: Clay Burell http://blog.genyes.org/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-11758 Clay Burell Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:39:44 +0000 http://blog.genyes.com/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/#comment-11758 Sylvia, regardless of the intent of the post you're responding to, the content of your own post is so right on. Thanks for posting it. Keep us on our toes. Sylvia, regardless of the intent of the post you’re responding to, the content of your own post is so right on.

Thanks for posting it. Keep us on our toes.

]]> By: David Warlick http://blog.genyes.org/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-11756 David Warlick Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:55:36 +0000 http://blog.genyes.com/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/#comment-11756 Sylvia, thanks so much for this post. I think that you are probably correct in pointing out that the message in my blog may have seemed more like a warning than a caution. I have added some lines to the post, trying to minimize this, and pointing to your blog. At the same time, I have to say that you have pretty dramatically over characterize the event and our intent. That said, I think that what you've included here is important, and I'm very happy that you have added it to the conversation Thanks, sincerely, for all of your contributions... Sylvia,

thanks so much for this post. I think that you are probably correct in pointing out that the message in my blog may have seemed more like a warning than a caution. I have added some lines to the post, trying to minimize this, and pointing to your blog.

At the same time, I have to say that you have pretty dramatically over characterize the event and our intent. That said, I think that what you’ve included here is important, and I’m very happy that you have added it to the conversation

Thanks, sincerely, for all of your contributions…

]]> By: Harold Jarche http://blog.genyes.org/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-11755 Harold Jarche Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:49:10 +0000 http://blog.genyes.com/index.php/2007/12/12/dont-blame-the-kids/#comment-11755 Good analysis of this event, Sylvia. Imagine asking 12 front-line workers to speak openly about their work in front of their peers, supervisors and executives of the company. There is a definite power relationship in school and I agree that there's no reason for kids to spill their guts in front of the powers-that-be. It's easy to speak out when you're a consultant who has flown in for a day and has nothing to lose. I know; I am one ;-) I have to agree with the kids though; Facebook is "mostly" a waste of time. Good analysis of this event, Sylvia. Imagine asking 12 front-line workers to speak openly about their work in front of their peers, supervisors and executives of the company. There is a definite power relationship in school and I agree that there’s no reason for kids to spill their guts in front of the powers-that-be.

It’s easy to speak out when you’re a consultant who has flown in for a day and has nothing to lose. I know; I am one ;-)

I have to agree with the kids though; Facebook is “mostly” a waste of time.

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